Nancy Byron (Georgia State University) on The Critical Role of Frameworks in Credential Innovation

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Nancy Byron to discuss the importance of structure in micro credential design and the role of collaboration between higher ed and industry. 

Transcript

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Shauna Cox (00:02):Nancy, welcome to the Illumination Podcast.

Nancy Byron (00:06):Thank you. I appreciate you inviting me.

Shauna Cox (00:09):So I first want to set the table by saying micro-credentials have been very hot in higher ed for a few years now, especially after the pandemic and a result of the pandemic. But there needs to be a more concentrated effort that I'm seeing based on my conversations on the structure and the framework, which is exactly why we're here to talk today. So I want to kick off our conversation and ask how can structured micro-credential frameworks reshape that future of higher ed and kind of redefine their value to learners and society?

Nancy Byron (00:43):Yeah, I think the framework is needed and that structure is needed in large part for visibility and credibility for the learners themselves. When there's so much variety across the credentials that are being offered, it's very difficult for industry professionals to recognize what these learners are actually getting out of those credentials that they're bringing to the table. So the structured frameworks have the potential to just really also allow higher education to be not only more flexible and inclusive and responsible to the learners and the workforce needs, which is what has made them so attractive and created that demand, but that the frameworks then allow everyone to align with, okay, what can we show employers that these learners are actually gaining from what they're learning in these credentials? So that's where the value of the framework comes in. And then we can embed short, stackable skills focused credentials and align them maybe with some academic programs to allow students and learners to continue forward on a path and have a path or journey through education, and employers can recognize that, rely on it.

Shauna Cox (02:15):And I want to dovetail off of that. You mentioned the employers there, but what role should higher ed play in that co-creation of credential pathways with the employers and with the industry partners?

Nancy Byron (02:30):There's been a longstanding relationship I think that needs some additional support where higher education has been providing some baseline, let's back up a little bit. I think that we need to continue to serve as trusted conveners and academic stewards and that co-creation of pathways with employers. The employers still have the employer identified skills that are going to be specific to their company, whereas I think higher education then identifies the skills that are more broadly applicable to the industry itself. But we need to be able to be more flexible. Industry and employers or the needs of the employers are changing rapidly and the needs of the workforce are changing rapidly. And this is where micro-credentials come into play to help us be more flexible, us being higher education, and that need for flexibility has just increased so dramatically, especially since technology is changing so quickly and the need for skill that's upskilling quickly has changed. So, excuse me, I had to get some water. So that need for upskilling has changed really quickly. And so that need to collaborate even more with industry has just grown tremendously

Nancy Byron (04:19):With microcredentials. It allows higher education to then think about, okay, how can we partner with industry in a way that allows us to be more thoughtful about shifting without changing a whole four year curriculum in an undergraduate program or a whole two year curriculum in a master's degree, we can change and partner with industry almost leveraging micro-credentials as educational r and d for higher ed. And that's a huge opportunity for us. And we can think about that from a non-credit standpoint, and then industry can then leverage that to say, okay, let's work with higher education to create pathways for our employees that if we're offering these trainings and these credentials in-house within industry, we don't necessarily have the pathways that our employees can then go into, apply that to credit for prior learning for a certificate or a degree if they want to. But if we're partnering with higher education, then we know we can work with them to create those pathways for our employees if they then want to continue forward into a certificate or a degree.

Nancy Byron (05:47):And there's huge value in that, right? So it's a way to partner and think about leveraging the full suite of opportunities for employees that an employer alone might not be able to do, or it might just be more challenging because they create it in-house and then they have to come back to higher education and say, okay, we've created this with our instructional designers, with our team of trainers. How might this then translate to higher education? And then can you offer credit for prior learning in order to do that in a way that accreditors are going to approve? Our faculty then have to go and review everything that was created by those employers and say, does this align? Is this going to be applicable? And can we then offer credit for that? Versus if our faculty are then involved in partnering with industry to create these, we know that because the faculty have worked with them then on the front end that we can then offer that credit for prior learning.

Shauna Cox (06:51):Absolutely. And with that, such a high level of collaboration, there's a lot of stakeholders involved, and at the same time you have the learners and maybe more external partners demanding the flexibility and agility and all these other things. This clearly can't be done overnight or it can't be done just with the snap of a finger. So what are some of the biggest barriers that institutions are facing when it comes to implementing scalable and learner-centered micro-credential strategies?

Nancy Byron (07:23):Interestingly, it seems like it's step one is one of the first challenges that I see, and that is reaching out to your partners to have that first conversation. The biggest question I get is what is that step one? Who do we reach out to and what does that conversation need to be? And that first conversation really needs to be a listening session. Well, understanding what your value proposition is as a higher education institution. What can we offer to the industry partner? And at what level are we willing to customize? And it is reasonable to customize that program, that micro-credential for a pathway, for a full pathway, and what seems to be too much customization to where really it needs to fall on that particular company versus being an industry credential. What needs to fall on that company to be a more specific training versus a credential specific training for that company? So kind of identifying that space, where are those guide rails? And then listening to that company to say, where are your skills gaps?

Nancy Byron (08:50):And aligning that with what are our institutional strengths? And so finding that sweet spot of where our institutional strengths are and where their skills gaps are, and then building that micro-credential together. So beyond that, once you've made that, I identified that sweet spot, pulling in the right stakeholders to start having that conversation to actually build it. And then there's the process of actually making that come to fruition. The scalability beyond that is what tools are you going to use, what infrastructure is in place? And then the legalities around the intellectual property and things like that around making that happen. So there's always a lot of challenges, but once that framework is in place, and once you're got a system set up, it can be really valuable. There's a lot more involved and a lot more opportunity beyond just working with partners too, with Microcredentials, I think in the higher education space too. So I'm hoping we'll talk a little bit about that.

Shauna Cox (10:04):Yeah. So I want to deep dive into the structure and the framework that you just mentioned and ask, can institutions ensure that the microcredentials are recognized, that they're portable and that they're valuable across the institution? So academically, but also to the employment ecosystems?

Nancy Byron (10:27):Well, it's really not, not starting from scratch, I guess is a first place to start in the conversation. I mean, even if you look globally, I mean there are countries who have done this. I mean New Zealand, Australia, even the eu, they have national micro-credential frameworks and guidelines. So we have places to look to start thinking about how can we establish even on a broader scale, on a larger scale, these nationally recognized frameworks. We're not there yet in the us, but I hope we are headed in that direction, at least thinking about it from the state level and even beyond that, paying attention to each other, whether we're working with professional organizations that are really in this space, organizations like EA where we're all getting together and we're in acro, or we're all getting together and we're looking at the micro-credential space and we're having conversations and how do you have this set up and how do you have this set up?

Nancy Byron (11:43):And it is a little bit at the ground level trying to share and look at each other's work and try to align what we're doing across the industry because we all recognize that if we can have some cohesiveness across at the state level and then trying to align nationally at least to some degree, and align with skills mapping and those sorts of things, that we can start coming to a place where we have that visibility and credibility because of the frameworks that we are creating, that there's some consistency there. But hopefully through policy and continuing to build in that space, we can get to a place where, and this is what higher ed does well, right? This is one of the values of higher ed getting involved. Abet, which is crediting body for engineering primarily, but they also extend beyond that has recently done some recognition of and some quality assurance for even some industry. So there's a lot happening in this space right now in the US and globally to try to create some even global recognition of, and some standards for microcredentials. So it is evolving, but that's what's happening in this space to try to establish that recognition.

Shauna Cox (13:17):I want to take a step back, and you mentioned the established recognition there. I want to look at the big picture and ask, how do microcredentials in general just enable higher ed to fulfill its mission of lifelong learning and that equitable access, especially in this rapidly evolving economy?

Nancy Byron (13:36):Yeah, there really are lowering some barriers to entry by allowing different path. I mean, higher education has to recognize, and we started doing this with online education, expanding access beyond just your traditional learner. And when I say traditional learner, it's the students. We all think of that 18 to 25 year olds coming in straight from high school and then in the graduate space going straight from undergraduate into graduate. That is a large chunk of our college age, university age students. However, we also all recognize that there's a lifelong learner and all of us, and we hope to continue to educate the public. That's really what higher education is all about, educating the public and what can we give back to the public? And it is a public good to provide lifelong education and higher education beyond high school. And so micro potentials contribute to that in a big way to say, let's lower some barriers to entry, let's individuals to upskill incrementally.

Nancy Byron (14:54):That might be just, I'm in a job and I need to gain some AI skills that to maintain my job, or maybe I want to shift, maybe I need to get a job quickly, and so I can't commit to a full four year degree or even a two year associate pathway. I need to get a short credential that can stack later, but I need to get my job right now, or I need to get a raise right now. And so microcredentials can allow for that. Then there's research out there to show that it is actually effective in that space. So that is what it's creating some upward mobility for people who and some access to individuals that wouldn't otherwise have that access. So there's a lot of ways that microcredentials are contributing to access and to mobility, social mobility.

Shauna Cox (15:50):Absolutely. So those are all the higher ed related questions I have for you, but is there anything else that you would like to add in terms of micro-credentials, the framework structures, advice, anything I may have missed?

Nancy Byron (16:04):I do think that we have talked a little bit about quality assurance, but I think also just tracking the microcredentials within your own institution, thinking about a structure within your institution for guide rails for your faculty to say, here are the guidelines. This is what we've created here at Georgia State University and several universities have created. And even at system levels, and we've talked some about nationally, which is a hope for the future. But thinking about guidelines that allow your faculty to look at that. Think about different levels of micro-credentials, different levels of badges that they can use, and making sure that there's some metadata on the back end of those badges that you're using for that, so that there's visibility of what they have actually earned. And it's not just a badge that's a sticker from that. They're showing on a LinkedIn account that there's something that those badges are portable, that they can take them with them using open badges and just really being thoughtful about how that credential is being used and transferred. So there's a lot to this space to think about from a technology standpoint before people dive in and that it is an investment. So before people just start adding badges and adding micro credentials to their space, there are a lot to think about and a lot to learn. So I want to encourage people to do their research first.

Shauna Cox (17:49):Yes, absolutely. And that is why we're having this conversation. We need structure, we need frameworks, and I appreciate you sharing those insights. But before I let you go, I have to ask you important food related question. You are in Atlanta, Georgia, so there's a plethora of options here. Where do you recommend people go to eat?

Nancy Byron (18:09):Well, I'm going to give a plug to our marketing engineer. We have a marketing engineer here at Georgia State University named Kiara Emerson. She has a Instagram account that I highly recommend if you're coming to Atlanta that you check out. It is, I love food, A TL and Atlanta just has too many food options not to check out all the different possibilities, and everybody has different tastes. So I would check out, I love Food A TL on Kira Emerson's Instagram account.

Shauna Cox (18:43):Amazing. Well, I will be there in the summer, so I will certainly be stocking that Instagram account and checking out where I need to go. Nancy, thank you so much for the time. I really do appreciate it.

Nancy Byron (18:53):Thank you, Shauna.