Annie Taylor (The Pennsylvania State University) on Growing Distance Learning Programs Effectively

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Annie Taylor to discuss how instructional design is the backbone to online learning and engagement strategies to scale enrollment growth. 

Transcript

Shauna Cox (00:02):Annie, welcome to the Illumination Podcast. I'm so glad you could join me today.

Annie Taylor (00:06):Thank you. I am honored to be here. This is fun.

Shauna Cox (00:09):We're here to chat about scaling programs without sacrificing quality and consistency and especially when it comes to distant learning programs. So I want to kick off our conversation and ask what are the most critical factors institutions should consider to ensure both that scalability and quality and distance learning course design and delivery?

Annie Taylor (00:35):That one, I'm going to be pretty biased about.

(00:38):My background is in instructional design. That's where I came up from before I became an administrator. And so I really think in providing good instructional design, support is key. It's key to quality distance learning in the first place, and definitely as we are asking our instructors to take on more and more students as we scale. So that is first and foremost. Instructors in most institutions come to teaching with no formal training in how they teach now in the us I know in our public school system for the K through 12, kindergarten through 12, we would never put someone in our classroom to teach our children without having training in how to teach. And yet we do it in higher education all the time, and usually it works out really well. But we do have so many, I've seen this in my 33 year history, instructors feeling like they've got imposter syndrome.

(01:43):They don't really feel like they know what they're doing, things aren't going great, and they don't know how to fix it. So that instructional design support is really key to making sure that they feel supported and that they know again, how to deal with these growing enrollments. I think the other thing for me, again, just based on experience and observation is ensuring engagement. I'm of the era that came up with Michael Moore, the kind of the grandfather of distance education, an amazing man I had the pleasure to work with for a while, and he always talked about engagement with the instructor, engagement with fellow students, and engagement with the content. And nothing has changed in all these years. Those are still key. So instructors should use strategies that really enable students to engage with each other no matter how big the class gets, so they don't feel like they're in it alone. They should include strategies that make the content itself engaging. And so they're not just reading or watching, they're really engaging with the material and they're engaging with the instructor. No matter how big the class gets, they know that there's an actual person teaching them and caring about them. So I could go on all day about that.

Shauna Cox (03:15):Well, absolutely, and I think it's really important what you just said there, because you have the distance learning programs or online environments, it can tend to be isolating or they're unsure. The type of students that come in might not be as confident with them. So knowing that there's that humanistic element behind their program and having that support I think is really key. And I want to go back and touch on a point that you made with your background instructional design. Going to deep dive into that and ask how do faculty development and instructional design teams really contribute to maintaining those, that consistency see across online courses?

Annie Taylor (03:58):Oh, great question. I mean, I'm not big on cookie cutter courses. That said, there is a lot to be gained from standardized processes. I examples, exemplars, templates that can be modified easily, but give people a jumping off point.

(04:22):Instructional design teams can come up with those and can really ensure that you have that consistent quality across and rigor across courses. I know in our group we are big on checklists just to make sure that every I is dotted, every T is crossed. We thought of everything from the engaging content and the engaging activities to ensuring copyright and intellectual property has been an accessibility, such an important topic have been taken care of. So I think that is a huge thing. Training programs and resources key. Absolutely. Again, as we just said, so many instructors really have not gotten the background and the training. They'd like to be able to really be effective in the classroom or don't know that there are ways to do things more efficiently or more effectively or so that it's more fun for them and they're students. So offering regular professional development opportunities and resources, not everybody wants to go to a webinar or have to listen to a podcast as much as you and I love them actually podcasts or a great way now that I tease because they are on demand.

(05:49):They can listen to them when and where it makes sense for them. So we try to do all sorts of things from the live events to articles and tips we put out in our college's weekly newsletter, pointing them to other opportunities and resources. I was just reading one this morning at another institution that I'm going to point our faculty to. We don't need to reinvent the wheels. So I think those are all key and behind that all is collaboration. The collaboration between the instructional designer and the faculty. Instructional designers are not just button pushers. They're not just people that you hand things over and say, here, make it pretty. These are seasoned professionals. They have typically advanced degrees in education. Their expertise is in how to teach. And so it really, if instructors can embrace that and really see this as a partner, as someone who wants them to be the best they can be and wants their students to have the best experience they can, they'll get a lot out of that collaboration.

Shauna Cox (07:01):Absolutely. Collaboration is key. And I love what you highlighted a little bit earlier in the various formats that you're using to engage learners because you don't want to stick with the same thing over and over again. You change it up. They might want to have this format one week, another format, a different week, and I think it keeps them engaged when you're putting something fresh in front of their face. And that's really, really important. And now diving into the technology side of it, because I think we can't have this conversation without talking about the technology of course. So how can technology enhance both the efficiency and the learning experience in a large scale online program?

Annie Taylor (07:44):The first one sounds like that comes to my mind, sounds like a no-brainer. And it's hard to imagine institutions not having this in place, but a really good learning management system right there. You're going to have streamlined course management, you've got capabilities for things like automated grading if you need it. And you've got the ability to pull learning analytics that can help the instructor know who's engaging, who's not engaging, how are they doing, are they posting to the discussion forums the way they're hoping they are. All of those things. When you get a lot of students in the class as you scale, it's harder and harder to keep track of that. So learning management system right off the bat, great tool that really should be baseline. We are so past the days of people trying to teach from the privacy of their office with the little computer over in the corner, that's their server that goes down occasionally.

(08:50):I mean, I was involved when we first started doing in the nineties and that was real. So hopefully those days are long gone. We also, I think the interactive tools that are available now, obviously things like discussion forums, but the live chats video, the video calls. I'm a big believer in most distance education courses that are engaging adult learners who are usually working professionals or taking care of children, taking care of elderly parents. You don't want to rely a lot on synchronous communication. But when and where you can have that live video, even if it's for office hours, wonderful, wonderful tools, virtual labs, virtual equipment, those things all really can enhance and improve the efficiency. But then of course we get to ai, and I'm a lover, I have to say I really have enjoyed using ai. I completely understand the limitations, but we should know our content really, really well.

(10:09):So when we can use tools like that to create, not only to do things like grading, but I mean help us create robust question banks. The more students you get in a class, the more you want to have a question bank for your quiz, get automatically pulled from a pool of questions. AI can do a great job of drafting those for you. Humanize should review them, but can do a really great job of looking at those. But I've also really found such value in using AI to help craft engaging activities, to help craft explanations for complex concepts. Not every incredible scientist is really good at explaining to the lay person their material and even creating visual aids. I had an activity recently where I needed a graphic and I knew that our graphic designer, who is incredible was not available. And so I asked my favorite AI tool to create one for me and it did a pretty darn good job. Now I would've rather had my human, but it was pretty darn good. So these are ways we can really enhance efficiency and the overall learning experience for our students.

Shauna Cox (11:38):Absolutely. I love seeing that you're embracing AI and the way that you're doing it. I think it doesn't compromise anything that people are saying that there's a lot of fear in higher ed around it. It's either you're for it or you're against it. But I think you're really finding the right avenues for efficiency in leveraging ai. And you already have that knowledge that the human eyes need that look. But I think it really does help with efficiencies. And I'm also a big fan of ai I think is really important. And what I'm noticing here is the overlying theme of engagement in our conversation. And so key in today's environment with everything that's going on, and especially in distance programs, you might have the adult learner who's juggling so many different things in their life. So what strategies have been most effective in fostering student engagement and success for these distant learning programs, especially at scale?

Annie Taylor (12:36):The very most important thing I think is instructors who strive to make personal connections. Yes, it gets harder the bigger the class, but it's still completely possible. And I can give you a million examples, but anything from having icebreakers at the beginning of the class where you get to know your students and they get to know each other, offering them opportunities to have coffee chats. Maybe you have just an open time a few times a week where, yeah, it's like office hours, but just, Hey, I'd love to get to know you. I teach a class periodically where I offer that to my students and I just say, Hey, 15 minutes if you want to pop in. And we have fun and I get to know them on a personal level, obviously office hours, but surveys, questionnaires, have students lead presentations. You don't always have to be the one creating the content, presenting the content.

(13:39):And you get to learn a lot about people when they are the ones presenting polls, quizzes, live question and answers sessions, even theme discussions. I love this where you have discussion threads where students are able to share your thoughts on specific topics, but you get to know more about their interests and their perspectives. You could even have them suggest what the discussion threads are going to be, but it's got to be something related to the content or what we're discussing this week. And you really start to see those personalities come out. Those are the classes, those kinds of activities when they're incorporated, where the students are more engaged, the instructor is more engaged, obviously a lot of that also revolves around active learning. So anytime you can encourage active learning, a group projects, peer reviews, interactive assignments and activities, anything that gets them really hands on.

(14:41):The worst examples are to me, and I've taken many classes like this, are the video talking heads or the just read this book and I'll see you at mid-semester for the quiz. I mean, yeah, no one wants that providing regular feedback. I mean, a lot of this I realize as it's coming out of my mouth, it's really no difference in face-to-face instruction. But we forget about these things in the online environment, in the distance environment, and it's even more important in those. So offering that regular feedback, timely, constructive students need to know that they're on track and they need to stay motivated. Gosh, any way you can do community building, any kinds of virtual events or study groups you could put together or encourage social media interactions. I've got instructors who create blogs on the side and invite students to come join them and engage in these discussions related to the topic.

(15:53):And then I guess the last thing I would say about fostering student engagement is just making sure you have also some really comprehensive support services from mental health and wellness programs. If your students aren't engaging, we go back to that LMS. You can see if they've been engaging in paying attention and knowing if someone needs counseling services or wellness programs, they're somehow struggling tutoring. If your institution has those resources, and I would hope they do, then being able to point, you don't have to be the person providing those resources, but pointing students to them and making sure they're getting the support they need.

Shauna Cox (16:39):I think what's really cool here is that when you highlighted, it's really no different than face-to-face instruction. I think with the online distant environment, it's almost like a one up from a face-to-face instruction when you're looking at how to engage students because you have to, and I guess in a sense you have to overemphasize on your engagement to get those people engaged. Face-to-face really lends itself naturally to some engagement and things like that. But I think when you're laying out strategic initiatives or ideas that you just laid out here, really gets the student focused, engaged and not just watching a webinar and drawing off. So I think

(17:21):All of those things that you hired are really, really key. And now I would say we're in a time in higher ed where we've had our traditional structure. Institutions are hundreds of year old thing like that, very traditional structure, rigor. But we're also at a time where innovation is so key and I think everybody's really trying to jump on innovation and trying to get out. They're trying to break some molds and adapt the institution to meet the needs of these new learners. So how do you balance that need for innovation and online learning while maintaining your academic rigor and those institutional standards that are set up?

Annie Taylor (18:05):I think one of the key things for me is to give instructors autonomy, make sure they maintain autonomy. I should say. I think I have seen what I feel is not as accessible a model where the instructional designer, that instructional design group is kind of a gatekeeper. You're like, Nope, this is how we're doing it and you need to do, this is how your course needs to be laid out. This is how things need to be structured. And it's the old fill in the blank. And I think taking away the creativeness and the autonomy, the instructor, the ability to just pivot when things maybe aren't going great and being able to make continuous quality improvement changes to a course. I just think that giving some autonomy or as much as possible, I shouldn't say some, I mean it's their course is key. I think piloting things is another crucial strategy.

(19:16):My mom, bless her heart, she's no longer with us, but one of her favorite things that she would always say was, take the small step approach. And what she meant was, don't just dive in and throw the baby out with the bath water. Try everything. But instead, if you think that you want to tweak something, do it. Just tweak that one thing, see how it goes. Let your students know that you're experimenting. You want to see this, you want their feedback. If it goes well, do more. If it doesn't move on to something else, you're clearly, I would hope, still doing all the assessment that you've always done, you know that they're still meeting their learning goals. That rigor is still there. You're still meeting the institutional standards, but you're getting to try out some new ways of doing things. And then to that point, I guess, again, as I said, asking the students, how is it going just involving all the stakeholders.

(20:20):We routinely as an instructional design group, we collaborate with the one I lead at Penn State, we collaborate with our academic departments, with our faculty, and we're always reaching back and saying, Hey, we want to do this new thing. This really, if it's really wild, really different the instructor and their learning designer want to tackle will go back to the department occasionally and say, just want to make sure you're okay with this. This still meets because we've got some ABET accreditation need. We've got obviously institutional standards and so forth. Is it okay if we do this this way? And so involving the faculty, the students, even industry experts in those decision-making processes, I mean, we're ultimately preparing our students to be out in the workplace. So we really should be getting that industry insight to make sure that they are having the kinds of experiences they need. They're getting the knowledge and the skills that they need so that when they are in the workplace, they're ready to go. So making sure that, and a lot of that input, these stakeholder, the external stakeholder input is where the innovation comes. They'll say, Hey, we need you to do more of this and this and this, and we can really get some great ideas and innovations from those external voices.

Shauna Cox (21:52):Absolutely. I think it really ties back into what you mentioned earlier with the idea of collaboration, really have to get everybody involved. Maybe not too many hands in the pot, the one step at a time approach, but I think having that constant loop of feedback and just really this life cycle of a program or what you're doing is really important to have it going constantly updating and stuff like that so that way it's not stale and then you go, oh crap, we have to go back. We have things like that.

Annie Taylor (22:25):One of my favorite sayings that I, who knows where I first read it, but I love it, is distance education is a team sport. It is. And honestly, I think face-to-face should be a team support too. Again, I think we put too many people, even our trained K through 12 folks, we put too many people in the classroom alone when we could be giving them wonderful support resources that would help them have a better experience and help their students have a better experience.

Shauna Cox (23:03):Absolutely. Well, Amy, those are all the questions that I have for you. But before I let you go, we have to switch from a higher ed podcast to a food podcast. So you course based in State college, Pennsylvania. Now, if someone's coming to town, where do they need to go to eat?

Annie Taylor (23:20):Oh, that's kind of a no brainer. So Penn State University State College is the surrounding town for University Park, which is our campus. It's a town. The name of the campus has its own postal designation. So you go on campus and you go to our creamery. Our claim to fame is that we are where Ben and Jerry learned how to make ice cream true story, Penn State short course. Our creamery is incredible. So when visitors come to town, you go to the creamery and it's Yeah, you'll get it. You'll absolutely see it'll be the best ice cream you have ever had.

Shauna Cox (24:06):Amazing. I love that. Ice cream is my number one food. So next time I'm going to Pennsylvania, that is literally going to be my first stop.

Annie Taylor (24:14):Oh, I will take you. You'll love it.

Shauna Cox (24:17):Amazing. Thank you so much, Annie. It was great chatting with you.

Annie Taylor (24:21):It was so fun talking to you. Thanks a lot.