Kassie Burkholder (NAIT) on The Risk, Reward and Reinvention of a New Approach to Education

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Kassie Burkholder to discuss how entrepreneurial strategies and innovation are transforming higher education, driving agility and creating real-world alignment to stay competitive. 

Transcript

Welcome to Illumination by Modern Campus, the leading podcast focused on transformation and change in the higher education space. On today’s episode, we speak with Kassie Burkholder, who is Executive Director of Corporate and Continuing Education and Product Development at Northern Alberta Institute of Technology. Kassie and podcast host Shauna Cox discuss how entrepreneurial strategies and innovation are transforming higher education, driving agility and creating real-world alignment to stay competitive. 

Shauna Cox (00:02):Kassie, welcome to the Illumination podcast. I'm so glad you could join me today.

Kassie Burkholder (00:06):Thanks, Shauna. Thanks for having me.

Shauna Cox (00:08):Absolutely. So we're starting to see more of a shift towards innovation in higher ed, which of course is great, and I want to deep dive into this topic. I think it goes hand in hand when you're talking about an entrepreneurial mindset. So how do you see entrepreneurial approaches redefining or starting to redefine the future of education?

Kassie Burkholder (00:32):Yeah, it's a really great question, and so maybe I'll answer it from two different perspectives. So I work in continuing education, which is typically non-credit, but then there's the traditional steeped educational institutional kind of experience. It's like degrees and diplomas and those kinds of credit stuff. So yeah, I think that we have to kind of change the way that we view education because it isn't the education that used to exist even 30, 40 years ago, not even 10 years ago, not even five years ago. It's consistently evolving and changing. So I think some of the entrepreneurial approaches, I think that universities and higher educational institutions need to start embracing is things like agility, customer-centric focus, innovation. Those are really big things. Our students, although they were our students and they're coming and they're getting an education, they are also our customers. There are folks that are paying for a product that they hope that they get a return on their investment for, and that investment is their education and the return on investment is them getting a job and those kinds of things.

(01:45):So I think that the entrepreneurial mindset would serve us well in higher education. Everything from risk taking, which by the way, post-secondary and higher education institutions are very risk adverse. So risk taking, doing pilot projects, those kinds of things. And then maybe I'll shift a little bit to the continuing education lens because the way I very much view my team is kind of like the concept car at nature. Where I am, we get to take risks and we get to do lots of really interesting projects because the stakes maybe are a little less, it's not a credit program. We can pivot quicker to industry demands and those kinds of things, but I really do take on an entrepreneurial approach, and the team does too. I think they embrace it and I think it's served us well and hopefully over the next few years that approach will really help us scale our business.

Shauna Cox (02:39):Absolutely. And you mentioned some innovations that are clearly starting to define education as a whole, but I want to talk about the market itself because it's very competitive. We all know that people are fighting for students, especially as student demographics are declining, people are questioning ROI, things like, so what are some key innovations that institutions have to embrace in order to stay competitive?

Kassie Burkholder (03:07):Yeah, I think that first of all, the low hanging fruit is probably emerging technologies. I think stuff like the hot topics of AI and AR and VR and different immersive learning experiences. I think that those things are really important and I think that that's what students are coming to expect from an educational experience and how we navigate those other things that I think are really important is some of the flexibility with how programs are delivered. If Covid has taught us anything, it is possible to do things online and it is possible to be successful. So embracing what this hybrid on online delivery look like, does it make sense in certain contexts? I'm not saying we get rid of face-to-face because that is absolutely valuable and absolutely necessary, but I'm saying flexibility with those. I also think thinking more along the lines of pathways between credit to not incr programming is super important and what those potentially look like in the long term.

(04:16):Students come in different parts of their lives, they're coming out of high school, they're coming, coming after. Maybe they want a change of career. What does it look like to meet that student where they're at and find where they're at on their pathway, pathway and enhance that accessibility and all of those kinds of things. But I think that those are super important. And maybe one last thing I think about innovations is how are we really aligning our programming, our curriculum development, the work, the meat and potatoes of the things that we do with actual outcomes? And I mentioned that in my first answer, but really how are we aligning it to students graduating and getting a job and how are we aligning it to real world needs and demands of industry?

Shauna Cox (05:07):Absolutely. I think it's key to reiterate that. So asking the concept car as you labeled yourself, what are the key challenges that institutions are facing when it comes to innovations? Maybe they're not the sandbox or they're trying to be a sandbox,They can't. So what are those challenges in the traditional higher ed context and how can they at least start to navigate those obstacles?

Kassie Burkholder (05:36):I mean, that's a hard question. Every institute is different. They're going to have a different culture. It's going to feel a little different, but you kind of just said it, institutional. I feel like there comes a point in time when we're too institutional and we've institutionalized education. And with that comes, and I mentioned earlier that post-secondary and higher education institutions are pretty risk at first. And with that comes a little bit of a resistance to change or overwhelm. We're working with academics, we're working with instructors and staff, some of which have been in post-secondary and higher education for a long time. They have a way of doing things, creating that momentum where changes embrace can be so challenging. I also think some of the challenges that face post-secondary right now, particularly in Canada, but I know that it's everywhere in slightly different context, is resource constraints, like funding challenges.

(06:44):How can we be innovative and transition from a traditional model into something more exciting when we're struggling to grow or to expand because we have resource constraints. So I think that that's a huge challenge. Navigating some of these things looks like collaboration with industry, collaboration with partners that aren't maybe in the post-secondary higher education landscape funding through grants and partnerships and what does that look like and how can we leverage those to maybe develop the program that we've been putting off because we don't have the funds. And I think aligning some of the business, and I say business very intentionally with post-secondary, that is not what we call it. We don't call it a business usually, but it is a business. And if we operate more like a business, but if we line those business priorities with that of industry or the economy or where we're seeing things going with market research, I think we have a better chance of success because the point of post-secondary institutions, not just to get people jobs, of course we have a social good and we have all these wonderful other things, but by and large and research and all those wonderful things.

(08:03):But by and large students want to come to post-secondary for a career. They want to come to elevate their opportunities in our world and treating ourselves a little bit more like a business. And operating in that way creates more opportunities to navigate these obstacles because business and industry can see themselves in the students that we graduate. It's a big deal.

Shauna Cox (08:29):Yeah, absolutely. And at the end of the day, I think at the core of it, it is those career changes, whether it's getting a new career or changing their career, people are looking to higher education at the end of the day. And I don't think customer is a dirty word. I think it definitely needs to be either do I a lot more?

Kassie Burkholder (08:48):No, they're our students, but they're also our customers.

Shauna Cox (08:52):That's what they're at the end of the day. And I want to go back to the sandbox aspect that we were mentioning earlier and ask what are some strategies that are critical in order to scale pilot programs, experimental approaches into that broader institutional transformation, especially as mentioned when you're in a very resource constrained environment?

Kassie Burkholder (09:20):Yeah, I think it kind goes back to my answer, my first question, we have to take some more risks. It is if we think customers may be a dirty word, I don't think it's a dirty word, but if we do, what is also is talking with higher educational institutions about getting rid of stuff, especially stuff that people feel passionate about. So I think things that are important to look at is product mix and understanding. Nobody's registering for this program anymore. Maybe it's time we investigate this and we have a look at this and we say, is there market demand for this? Are we serving our students in a way where when they're graduating this, they're going to be able to get a job? And if the answers are no, it's not making us money, it's not serving our students, maybe it's not whatever for whatever the reasons are, we have to make the acknowledgement that this is no longer a strategic place for us to live and to continue to offer our students, and we need to get rid of it.

(10:22):And when we get rid of the stuff on the bottom, that means we can scale the stuff that's winning. So how do we leverage the programs that are succeeding and doing well, and how do we scale them? How do we resource them better? How do we do these kinds of things so that those ones at the top end of the scale that are already successful can skyrocket. And the ones that are dragging and kind of keeping us down, we get rid of them because it's not serving any of us. But that does come. People are hesitant to get rid of the things that even aren't working, especially if they've invested time and money into them. They've seen the institutional money and expenses, they put their time in maybe with curriculum development or instructional hours or whatever the case is. I think that's important. Another one is really clear evaluation frameworks with success metrics for projects.

(11:22):I know it happens in every industry, but I don't know why in higher education sometimes we're like, yeah, this looks like a good idea. We're going to move down this path of this project and we do it. And we're like, I guess that worked. And we're like, but did we know why it was successful? Did we know what we were kind of aiming for? So I think that that's important. And if we want to really scale, we need to leverage some of those additional resources that we have and kind of work towards a common goal. So having really clear OKRs or really clear goals in mind when we're saying we're all rallying around this goal and because we're all rallying around this one thing, it's going to be more successful. And it doesn't matter that it's five different departments kind of working towards one thing. This one's going to be successful, but don't worry, we're going to work on yours next.

Shauna Cox (12:13):And I think that deeper analysis is so important, not only to show the value of a program or whatever you're working on, but also I really like that aspect of cleaning out the desk drawer, just trying to scale back some things. Just because something's been there for 10 plus years doesn't mean it's working now. It probably isn't. But cleaning that is so important, and I think that allows to make room for the new programs that you want to put in. So how do you ensure that experimental initiatives are not only pushing those boundaries of traditional education, but are also delivering that measurable value not only to the learners, but to the institution to kind of validate their purpose and reason to even be there just to pilot it and test it out?

Kassie Burkholder (13:02):Yeah, I think it goes back. You have to start with a clear definition of what success is going to look like for that, right? So is there student outcomes? Is there employment rates? Is there industry feedback? Is there enrollment numbers? What is the metric that's going to really help us push that needle? And keeping metrics. There's so much data that we can use to better ourselves to measure what it is that we're doing. Like we're doing the thing, and if we're measuring it, we can look at how we're doing. If we're not measuring it, we're kind of just guessing. So clear definitions of success, measurement of what that looks like. And then I think continuous feedback loops to refine initiatives. You're not going to launch the product that's perfect out the gate. It almost never happens. You're launching the MVP and you're iterating. You're coming back, you're collaborating with learners and stakeholders, and you're like, how's that going?

(14:06):Is it good? Is it not good? Have we met your needs or, I think that that's important. And maybe the last thing I'll mention is balance innovation with practicality. I think that's super important. There's so many fancy things that we can do with innovation, with technology, with instruments or labs, and we can do all these really cool things and we can easily get caught up in the thing. And yet those initiatives don't actually align with our goals, and they don't deliver tangible benefits. So the shiny things are important, and they're important to innovate and keep in mind and integrate into our programming. But if it doesn't balance itself out with the actual results you're trying to achieve, it's like, well, why are we doing this?

Shauna Cox (14:58):It's walking before you can run.

Kassie Burkholder (15:00):Yeah, there you go.

Shauna Cox (15:01):Take your time with it. I

Kassie Burkholder (15:05):Like shiny things.

Shauna Cox (15:08):And then the last question I have for you is kind of that sticky situation that we touched on before when it comes to people who may not be into change or want to change or are very passionate about something that they don't want to give up. So how can institutions effectively engage faculty, not just in one department, you might be great in your sandbox, but other departments are going to look at you and be like, what are they doing? So how can they engage faculty across departments to champion and implement the more innovative programs and practices?

Kassie Burkholder (15:40):Yeah, this is such a hard question for me. At the end of the day, it comes down to the culture.

(15:48):And that's hard. Culture's hard. It's hard to build, it's hard to maintain. It's a fine balance. And we're all humans and we're complicated and have nuances and those things, but I think it can start with a shared vision that aligns maybe with institutional priorities, something that people can rally around. You never see a very successful company with the absolute worst leader. It kind of doesn't happen. I mean, there people have goods and bads. I'm sure there's an example of there're going to be like, well, what about this? And I'll be like, well, yeah, I guess, but I'm sure they exist, but they didn't get there because they were not creating a shared vision. I think if everybody can say, yeah, I do this different and you do this different and we're in a different faculty or a different school or a different department, but I know that we're all working towards X, Y, and Z, and I can rally around that.

(16:52):I think that that's obviously, I know that sounds so basic, but I think it's real. And I think invest in the people that are doing the thing is so important. People feel invested in innovation, in product development, in customer service and all those wonderful things when they feel part of it and they feel like they're being invested in it, that the organization is investing in them. And that everything through offering professional development opportunities for your staff, giving them an opportunity to voice their opinion or listen to their idea or have a say in a process or these kinds of things. And I'm not saying we all just shake hands and kumbaya and sit around, but I think that the humans are still driving the success of every single one of our programs in our institutions. Everyone can remember an instructor that changed everything for them. And it wasn't the curriculum and it wasn't the desk they were sitting in. It was the human behind it that said, you can do it. So I think creating that culture that participates in innovative projects is a culture that is invested in the people that are doing those projects. The last one, maybe. Maybe I have two. I don't know. Two.

Shauna Cox (18:15):Throw it in there. Okay. I'm two more.

Kassie Burkholder (18:18):I think if people don't know what you're doing, they don't know.

(18:24):I was literally just at a meeting right before our conversation and the girl was like, wow, I had no idea you were doing that. I was like, yeah. And we sometimes get so caught up in all of the cool things we're doing, and we make the assumption that other people know the cool things that we're doing, and they don't know if they're not told. And if they're not told, they make assumptions. And how do we highlight the success stories of our team and demonstrate where impact on student outcomes are successful or those kinds of things? We need to communicate what those successes are, and then that further invests our team and the work that they're doing. So it's like this wonderful cycle. And I think cross-departmental collaboration is my last one

(19:14):Is you might be in the school of energy and environment and you don't think you have anything related with people in the health area. Maybe at the surface you don't. But after talking with that team, perhaps there's some shared resources or a lab space or a subject matter expert or an instructor that worked in this or that. I'm going to say that there's always overlap in everything, even when it's not obvious. And cross departmental collaboration can build momentum and alignment between teams. And it's so easy in higher education and post-secondary institutions across everywhere you can get so siloed, you're like, this is my job. I do this thing, I'm siloed. I focus on this and I do this every day. That's health. That doesn't apply to me. I focus on this. And giving more opportunities for that. Cross-departmental collaboration, cross school collaboration is so important. Maybe there should be an institutional goal around it. Who knows. Right?

Shauna Cox (20:13):Exactly. And I think even if people from energy versus health go, oh, we don't have anything in common. They have made, maybe one department had a strategy for something or they had an idea that while the subject matter is different, maybe you apply that to the strategy you are doing. That's how I kind of see that cross department. What were the tactics that you guys did that related to you? Can we apply the same best practices to our team and things like that. So it's not just, oh, I feel like I have nothing to add here because it's not my subject. I'm not an expert, but it's more of the tactical, tangible items that people can take away. So I think cross-departmental collaboration is so, so

Kassie Burkholder (20:54): Critical. Yeah, I agree. And you know what? It's hard too, working with academics sometimes when they're like, well, that's not my subject matter expertise. I'm not going to leave that to the experts. It's like, yeah, okay. It might not be your subject matter expertise, but you know about yours, and

Shauna Cox (21:10):Maybe you ask the right questions. Spark other things for other people. You're like, help me understand this. And maybe when that person's reiterating how they explain something to you, it's going to spark other ideas. I know that that happens in my everyday life when I don't understand someone's work or what they're talking about or things like that. So ask questions. Don't be afraid that just because it's not in your arena that you can't be a part of it.

Kassie Burkholder (21:33):Absolutely. Yeah.

Shauna Cox (21:36):And so the last question before I let you go is very, very important. Higher ed, as we know you were based in Edmonton, Alberta. Do people need to go to eat?

Kassie Burkholder (21:47):Oh my gosh. Literally so many places. And to pick one's, very challenging. But I love Italian food and there's a place called Olino, and it's super delicious, and I think that would probably be my recommendation.

Shauna Cox (22:05):Amazing. I love it so much. Kassie, thank you so much for joining me. It was a pleasure talking to you.

Kassie Burkholder (22:10):Likewise, Shauna. Thanks.