Mike Simmons (AACRAO) on How Digital Wallets are Shaping Higher Education

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Mike Simmons to discuss the evolution of digital credential wallets in the higher ed space and the potential they hold to enhance the student experience. 

Transcript

Voiceover: Welcome to Illumination by Modern Campus, the leading podcast focused on transformation and change in the higher education space. On today’s episode, we speak with Mike Simmons, who is Associate Executive Director, Business Development & Strategic Partnerships of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers—also known as AACRAO. Mike and podcast host Shauna Cox discuss the evolution of digital credential wallets in the higher ed space and the potential they hold to enhance the student experience. 

Shauna Cox (00:02):Mike, welcome to the Illumination Podcast. I'm so glad you could join me today.

Mike Simmons (00:06):Thanks. I'm glad to be here. Appreciate the opportunity.

Shauna Cox (00:10):So we're here to talk about all things digital wallets, which I'd say brief description is they allow students to access or keep their credentials, degrees and skills all in one place. That's the best description I can give. If you have a better one, totally feel free to pitch it. So I just want to kick off our conversation and ask how have digital wallets evolved in higher ed in recent years?

Mike Simmons (00:36):Well, you make a good point in the definition part of this, so I want to say words depending on who you talk to is really important in this, I found out. So you throw out the word digital wallet, like, hey, alright. But a lot of people with digital wallet is their driver's license. If I'm in the state of Maryland, my digital wallet, if I'm on a college campus, for some people my digital wallet is the thing that gets me food in the cafeteria. But we also, in this context, we're talking about basically a digital credential wallet. So I just want to make a distinction and there are a bunch of technical definitions of these. We don't even want to go down those rabbit holes. But for the purpose of this conversation, I think we're talking about the digital credential wallet, which is going to be a very important factor going forward.

(01:26):Now, the other thing we found is people will say other things like learning an employment record, micro-credential badges, things like that. When they mean a wallet or they'll say wallet when they mean bad, the words are very confusing at this point. And so a lot of the work we're trying to do is just say, okay, each word is important. It has a definition in specific context. But for broad conversations like this, we're basically talking about digital credentials, the kind of evidence records that students and learners and earners need to demonstrate their skills and competencies and academic achievements and activities. That's really what we're talking about, but there's so many words that people throw out when they're talking about this same thing. Does that make sense? 

Shauna Cox (02:11):Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you setting the stage for us here.

Mike Simmons (02:16):Yeah, so I think the evolution in higher ed is just that they weren't there and they are now, people say to us at acro, our association is, well, our digital credentials knew and we say no. A PDF is theoretically a digital credential if you think about it. So how long have we been, your transcript comes out as a PDF when you ask for it. Mine's printed on rocks from back in the stone age. But the point is just throwing in the word digital out there, that's not the thing. So a digital credential wallet is pretty straightforward in higher education. These are I think a relatively new phenomenon. And by that I mean probably in the last decade now the concept's been talked about for years. And I think there were people who used to use the old e-portfolio tools back in the early 2000 as sort of a digital credential wallet in that you put stuff in there and that was the main thing you could use to show what you did.

(03:20):So the evolution has come out with technology, with the phone. Really that's the deal. The device is what allows for the wallet concept, and so that technology is in the hands of everyone just like a wallet is. And as a result, that's how it evolves. Every student that I know and has a smartphone and it generally has some sort of a wallet functionality on it. Now whether they have a digital credential wallet or not, that sort of depends. But yeah, I think that's where it's evolved when the smartphone came. So the digital credential wallet became ubiquitous basically.

Shauna Cox (03:57):Absolutely. And you mentioned it earlier when we were kind of setting the stage to what exactly a digital credential wallet is. So I kind of want to pull that out of you and ask what are some of the challenges to introducing and scaling these digital credential wallets in higher ed?

Mike Simmons (04:14):Yeah, I think there's probably three main ones that I would point to. The first is the technology itself, the integration. So I was just mentioning we have the smartphone and we all have it, but there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes of integrating, and particularly when it comes to formal records. I mentioned driver's license earlier, the security and the kinds of things that have to go with an identity management component. Well, the same thing is true because of rules like FERPA and privacy and other things. Same thing is true with our academic records. I mean, we treat those very seriously in the academy. I can't go look at your stuff. So the same kind of rules have to apply when it's in a digital credential wallet. So you've got that technology thing and then how does it integrate with the other systems? That's the main thing.

(05:02):So you've got a security part and an integration part. That's one of the challenges and you have to think about. And the second is change. Change management, I guess is what you'd say. We're all used to getting our credentials in A PDF or a transcript or we hang a thing on our wall. That's us olders. Younger are, and I'm not putting you in that group by the way. Me older are used to that. The younger are used to getting everything they have as a record in a device or something. And so that change management, the systems don't move as fast as the people do, right? The legacy systems on campuses are way past where the smartphones are. And then the finalists, I guess back again to security and privacy. You can't just ignore those things in any technology, and it's really particularly true where you're involving academic records and identity. So those are the main challenges. And they largely have to do with technology. Honestly, I think the mindset and the philosophy is evolved. So that's not particularly a challenge. I think the technology integration, the security and privacy concerns are not fully answered. And so that gives people hesitance sometimes.

Shauna Cox (06:18):Absolutely, especially when it comes to the technology component, that can be quite the heavy lift for an institution to get there. But I think what's important here is to highlight the benefits that can come from doing that heavy lift and investing in something like this. So what are those potential benefits of integrating these digital credential wallets with existing campus services to create more of that seamless and connected student experience?

Mike Simmons (06:44):Well, let's just think through the various components that these tools can use. We talked about the digital wallet itself. Obviously that's just a functional on my campus. What will this thing do? And holding my grades and things is one part of it. As you said, identity and activity and purchasing and all those kind of things on the tickets and general ID and all that kind of stuff that happens. Those are components of digital wallets. Now, digital credential wallets, they have, I guess basically the, what am I trying to say? The idea that I can use that to help me know what I know and show what I know. So in other words, right now I can get a grade back from paper, A grade in a class on a transcript. I got an A in that class or made a B on the paper. And the ability for granularity in these digital wallets is not only did I do that, but here's the evidence that I did that.

(07:53):Here's what demonstrates that I did that. So it's signaling to me what I know, and then in turn, it's able for me to signal to someone else what I've done, whether that's the faculty member, whether that's the institution itself or whether that's external employer. So that notion of what it can show you in more granularity and detail with efficiency and effectiveness really quickly. That to me is the magic of it. It shortcuts so many of those processes that are so important in learning. If you don't know what you know and know what you can do, then it's not really valuable to have the experience. And that's where I think we fall short in higher ed a lot of times is we sort of summarize things, but don't give a retrospective student. I mean the academic principles is reflection and these things allow you to reflect on what you've done. So let's say you took a class three semesters ago. Are you going to remember really anything? No, none of us are. But with sort of these ized digital credentials that can be in wallets, I have sort of an ongoing record. It's a journaling, it's a diary of my learning. And that's I think, extremely valuable in the learning process. Learning theory says that over and over again. So that's the technical face of what learning's supposed to be, if that makes sense.

Shauna Cox (09:14):Yeah, absolutely. And in looking at my questions, I realized I totally skipped past one, so apologies for that. But it definitely into our topic of the student experience. So I kind of want to look at this big picture and ask, how do you envision these digital wallets transforming the student journey from registration all the way into their daily campus interactions?

Mike Simmons (09:37):So let's think about it. So theoretically, what is the student experience? And I don't care whether it's a two year institution or

(09:45):In research one, you got to apply and get in. So in your K 12 experience, there's the possibility of beginning to record and interact seamlessly with a digital credential wallet there in order to get in. So transferring your K 12 experience in education, that's not as common as we think it's going to be, but that's first part of the seamless. So how do you use digital credentials to enhance your prospects for a selective institution or to show your skill sets and experiences for a professional or vocational program, those kinds of things. Once you get on campus, like we said, you've got the campus services id, meals, recreation, all those kinds of things around campus payments. And even though that's not a credential function, it's still in that wallet. So if we're talking about that wallet, you can't separate 'em, right? Because nobody's going to have two separate.

(10:40):Ideally, you're not going to have two separate things, even though that exists. I think the other thing is sort of a real time. The technology allows a real time. I'm not waiting until the end of my academic experience to get the record, so to speak. I'm able to get an ongoing building record of what I'm doing and have access to that. Like I said previously, knowing that as I go along, it's a far helpful for me to build a narrative than it is for me to try to retrospectively archeologically dig stuff out from three years ago. So it enables that kind of collection. And then so when you graduate, obviously it's okay, well, am I going to get a job or go to graduate school? I've got a better, more enhanced and available record to do that. Can the school maintain some sort of alumni engagement using these kinds of tools? That's a possibility. And I think personalizing also, like I said, the generic, I took a class and I got a grade experience is what we're all familiar with. But individualized learning documentation experience is what's possible in these digital credential wallet technologies. And so that's far better than just simply the generic kind of information we transport to students and then transmit externally. I think that's really the seamless experience that you're looking for in terms of the learning journey.

Shauna Cox (12:08):Absolutely. And especially with that personalization, I think that is such a key component to higher ed nowadays because so much noise, there's so much competition, students want to feel more than just a number. So they want that personalized approach. So how do you see digital wallets contributing to that more personalized and data-driven approach to say academic services?

Mike Simmons (12:32):Alright, so the challenge as a faculty, and I've taught for over 25 years in various courses and things, the challenge is you just never can get at the individual. Your unit of measure is the course, right?

(12:48):As much as you say you want to work with individuals, it's just difficult in a class of 15, much less a class of 125. The ability though to have information that is digitized, whether it's from the LMS system or whatever other learning systems you're using in the class and into these records that are so more granular personally. So this is going to sound bad, but parents has shown students need and that's why they're in college. They need help. And so you're teaching them how to see and understand certain things. And so that's a push. Obviously at any given point, a student can pull information about themselves, about their learning and stuff. That's just a rarity, particularly for younger students. Now, adult students, they have a better tendency to do that. So the idea of these tools being able to nudge and suggest and push students with both information and prompts.

(13:55):And then as you say, personalized learning pathways. I demonstrated competencies here and the technology allows me then to branch in the direction where I need or I don't. And the record indicates that, and I'm mixing technologies here. Obviously a digital credential wallet doesn't do that all on its own, but they never stand on their own, right? They're integrated in the experience. And that's what we're talking about here. So you've got the student information system, you've got the learning management system, and you've got all the student support systems and you've got these records systems. And so whether it's digital credential, wallet or transcripts, they're all integrated. And what all of our friends in the vendor world are trying to do is figure out how to make that a more seamless experience. And I think the wallet folks, the credentials folks have an advantage in that they're taking the information from other systems and they can, they're like the builders.

(14:53):Somebody else is the architect, but they actually get to do this stuff with it. And I think the digital credential wallets, they're sort of sitting on top of the pile in terms of being able to have an immediate impact for students. No student ever cares that their student information system accurately recorded their social security. That's important that they got registered for classes, but what they care about is what's in their hand, that wallet that they can see and use. So that seamlessness of that experience, I think that's why these things are probably going to rise to the top of the pile in terms of student facing, student friendly student used for those reasons, not because they're better, just they're more apparent and more practical for students. That's my opinion. I don't know if that'll turn out, but that's what I think.

Shauna Cox (15:41):Yeah, absolutely. And I think when it comes to something like a digital wallet, I think maybe that scares some people. You mentioned in the beginning with your license and all these other very data heavy, important secret security measures around it. So I want to ask you about that security and ask what security and privacy considerations have to be addressed to ensure that these digital credential wallets can be trusted not only by the students, but also faculty.

Mike Simmons (16:12):Yeah, so I think there's basically five different things and there are no particular order. So let's start with the verification and that's verification of the information in there. And there are technologies that do that, whether they're the complexities of blockchain or whether they're just interoperable standards. There are security technologies that this came from this source, it's reliable, and I can check that the technology in the backend says you issued that credential. I know that you issued that credential and it's legitimate. So there's that verification type of thing. And then the identity verification. Do I know that the person that's presenting this credentials is actually who they say they are? That's a security and privacy issue has got to be covered legally and everything else. And that goes back to things like FERPA and other privacy laws that we already have in place in this country and others.

(17:07):Then you've got the, is there integrity to the data? Has it been altered? Can I trust it? That's different than who's issuing it and who the person is. I've got the whole what's in it. How do I know that that's legitimate? True? We say validity, veracity, those are registrar words, but basically that's what you have the integrity of the data. Those are tamper proof type verification technologies that have to be in there. And then finally the privacy. So the user has to be able to control who can access and not, I mean, there are rules that say that generically for the institution, but on the individual side, I have to have control over who sees what and things. So that privacy control mechanism is an important functionality. And then the overall principle, I think that is not a security of privacy concern, but is the interoperability. In other words, it's all fine, but if this thing does not interoperate with other systems, and that's where these security and privacy features come in, in the interaction with other systems is where the danger lurks. So how do you use standards and technology standards and things that are agreed upon across systems to enable these privacy and security features? That's the real trick

Shauna Cox (18:31):Absolutely. It's definitely something that needs to be considered. As I would say. I think it's fair to say that digital credential wallets are becoming increasingly popular or important. Institutions are starting to look at them more and more. So I just want to ask, what are some trends that you expect to see around these digital credential wallets in the upcoming years?

Mike Simmons (18:51):Yeah, I think the one that is probably most likely but is the most mysterious is what are the big guns going to do? What are the big companies going to do? What if tomorrow Apple or Microsoft or LinkedIn or Google or Meta come out and say, we are going to enable digital wallet technology in our platform and it has these functions? Well, that changes the immediate conversation immediately.

(19:22):Now, these things are basically apps in platforms. So the big long-term picture is, okay, at any given moment, somebody could and just change the entire dynamic of the things. Let's just say Apple decided to put a wall on everybody's phone. Oh wait, they already have, but what if Apple decided to get in the digital credentials business? Then we're talking differently, right? I'm just using that as an example. It could be anybody else. Right now on my iPhone, I have five digital wallets just because I download 'em as samples. They're sub products. But if it's the main product, I think that makes this look a lot different. Or what if LinkedIn suddenly does verified credentials and add security features? Or what if in Facebook that I can go on down the list of possibilities?

(20:16):So you sort of have to keep that up here in your site as at any given moment, that kind of thing could happen. But realistically, right now it's basically the vendors trying to figure out that sweet spot because the market is not mature yet in this for digital credential wallets, there are a number of great providers, and I would do the service I started listing in here, end up getting somebody and getting mad at me. But there are a number of great digital wallets out there that I as an individual can get. The question is, is my institution linked up to it? Like I said, I have five wallets on here. None of them are linked to my academic credentials because my particular institution didn't use a digital wallet and doesn't now. So the product itself, and then there's the integration of the product with the data that you need, and that's the real challenge of it. And then getting institutions on the same page, I guess it's less about the technology and more about the policy and practice that's holding things back now, but once an institution decides to do that, it's relatively easy.

(21:35):But to get to that point of deciding to do that requires some real philosophical decisions. Okay, we're not going to issue the same kind of transcripts anymore. Okay, fine, you're going to do this, but what are the implications for that? Or our employers will accept these. None of the employees in our region know what these are. You've got all these kind of questions that are out there that are not answered. And I think that's what's holding back. I said a minute ago, the big players are over the horizon. These kind of issues are just a little bit far down the road, and immediately it's just simply, okay, as a student, are these things that practical and useful for me now, and that's an individual decision. I know that's kind of a tortured picture, but I think that's the best I can describe it without being able to draw it out for you on a piece of paper or something.

Shauna Cox (22:28):And I think it is just the reality of today and hopefully we see more of the evolution of it, more progression towards it because as you said, it's not a mature market right now. So I think we're getting there, but there's a lot of obstacles and hurdles in the way to tackle first before we get to big picture final dreamland that we want of these digital credential wallets, but

Mike Simmons (22:52):Well, that's right.

Shauna Cox (22:53):That's everything that we have for you. But before I let you go, we're going to need a restaurant recommendation despite where a higher ed podcast. So you are based in Auburn, Alabama. Where do people need to go?

Mike Simmons (23:08):Well, I moved to Auburn from Texas, and so I'm partial to Texas stuff. And so there's a Texan who moved here and opened a restaurant called Bow and Arrow, and it serves Tex-Mex and Brisket. It's the closest thing I can get to Texas brisket in Alabama, although that's sacrilege because they don't like brisket here. But that's the one bow and arrow. It's a good one.

Shauna Cox (23:32):Amazing. I love it. Mike, thank you so much for joining me today. It was great having you.

Mike Simmons (23:37):Thank you. I appreciate the time.