Shawn VanDerziel (NACE) on Preparing Students for Lifelong Career Success

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Shawn VanDerziel to discuss the evolving relationship between higher ed and the workforce, and the need to integrate essential skills with technical training to prepare students for successful careers. 

Transcript

Voiceover: Welcome to Illumination by Modern Campus, the leading podcast focused on transformation and change in the higher education space. On today’s episode, we speak with Shawn VanDerziel, who is President and CEO of the National Association of Colleges and Employers. Shawn and podcast host Shauna Cox discuss the evolving relationship between higher ed and the workforce, and the need to integrate essential skills with technical training to prepare students for successful careers. 

Shauna Cox (00:05):Shawn, welcome to the Illumination podcast. I'm so glad you could join me today.

Shawn VanDerziel (00:09):Hey there. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Shauna Cox (00:11):Absolutely. So we're here to talk about the relationship between higher ed, the workforce, specifically on preparing students for say, lasting careers. And I want to kick off our conversation here by asking you how have you personally seen the relationship between higher ed and the workforce evolve in recent years?

Shawn VanDerziel (00:29):Yeah. Well, there's always been a connection between higher ed and the workforce. Employers have relied on higher ed to provide an educated and skilled workforce. Community colleges have been doing this for a really long time and are real specialists on it, especially when it comes to the technical skills that students learn and that the workforce needs. And so those strongest connections have traditionally been there. However, more recently there's been interest in transitioning to have more of an impact beyond technical skills to really include also those essential skills, essential competencies, things like critical thinking, change management, communication. And so we're seeing a stronger interest from the labor market, or I should say the workforce companies and having a greater say in what's happening in higher ed and frankly higher ed being open to having those conversations.

Shauna Cox (01:36):Absolutely. And you mentioned this shift that's kind of happening right now, and of course when there's a shift, not everything's going to be smooth sailing. So what are some of those challenges that higher ed leaders specifically are facing when it comes to trying to prepare students for today's workforce?

Shawn VanDerziel (01:53):So there is a disconnect that is happening and that needs to be fixed. There's a perception that has played out in both the media, but also when surveying the general public about whether or not higher ed is meeting the needs of a labor market. And we regularly survey and do research with employers to understand their perceptions of what's happening with students. They regularly tell us that students are not prepared for the workforce and the competencies that they need upon graduation students. We also ask them to rate their own competencies and what they think of their competencies when they graduate. When we compare the two, I will tell you that students always rate themselves much higher than where the employers are rating themselves, with the exception of one area, which is technology. Students tend to rate themselves lower than where employers, the students. So that's always very interesting.

(03:02):However, let's take a look at the reality. They by and large, meaning employers are not dropping degree requirements in mass. When we survey them, we find that there are a good percentage of employer that have reviewed degree requirements and they are dropping degree requirements, but they're doing it for jobs that should have never had degree requirements to begin with because there was degree inflation. And they also are not reducing the number of graduates that they're hiring. In fact, they've only been increasing the number of college graduates that they're hiring. So in fact, higher ed is doing something right because companies are finding talent among this pool. But this is a big, but that does not let higher ed off the hook. There is a major perception problem major, and we also know that there's an enrollment cliff coming. And so we need an educated workforce, and that's the reality of the situation. Another reality of the situation is that we don't have enough students who are achieving satisfactory career outcomes upon graduation. What do we mean by that? Students who have the salary that they need, a salary that is acceptable for a college graduate, the types of jobs that they were expecting to have upon graduation. And so we all need to work together to fix all of these issues and it is fixable. That's the saving here is that we've all got to work towards the solutions.

Shauna Cox (04:54):Absolutely. And I want to dive into this fixing that is required, and I don't want to put it completely on the faculty, but I do want to ask you what their responsibilities are in supporting students. So what role does faculty play in that college to career journey?

Shawn VanDerziel (05:12):Yeah, so we just completed a major study with faculty. We did this alongside A CNU as well as see the study for experiential education. And what we found is that faculty play a major role in the college to career journey. And we also know that most students, like over 80% of them feel comfortable going to their professors to ask for career advice. The faculty are the people that represent the university on a day in and day out basis for students. They're their main contact on campuses, so they have to play a critical role. We know that the bottom line is that the vast majority of students go to college to gain an advantage for their eventual career and life outcomes.

(06:09):But we also know that faculty have a lot to do, teach they research, they sit on committees, they advise students, the list goes on and on. But we need them also to integrate practical career readiness and preparation concepts into the curriculum so that we can strengthen those outcomes for every student and to help those students to understand from every course they take, what they're learning actually relates to the world of work and to the world in general. And we need to be super direct about it. Most students are just that their students, they're learning for the very first time in addition to the subject matter of a course, let's let them know that what they're practicing in the classroom, they're practicing their critical thinking skills. Let's ensure that they are gaining project management skills that are needed in the workplace. And let's talk to them about those presentation skills that they're gaining and how they're strengthening their communication skills right there in the classroom and how that applies to the world of work. It's so important that we give students real examples that they can use on their resumes about things that they're doing in the classroom as well as examples that they can use in interviews when they go and meet with employers.

Shauna Cox (07:37):And those relevant skills that are in the moment now can be used today. Real life examples I think really ties to the faculty and the work that they're doing. And I don't want to dump more stuff on their plate, but we're in a rapidly evolving workforce landscape, however you want to call it. So things can get outdated really quickly. So I want to ask you, as these demands of the job market continue to evolve every single day, how can institutions encourage faculty to stay up to date with these industry trends and incorporate those relevant skills and knowledge that you mentioned that students need to have into their curriculum so that students are up to date with these real life examples?

Shawn VanDerziel (08:23):Yeah, that's a really good question. And one thing I'd like to also bring up is that when we did our faculty survey about career readiness, it was astonishing the percent of alumni that come back and talk to faculty to get career advice. And so it's not just the students who are in the classroom, but it's alumni who are already out into the work world coming back to ask for advice. And so it is really important that faculty stay up to date because they are being used on a day in and day out basis as practical guiders for these students to gain advice from. And so the faculty can work really closely with the career centers, the career centers are in contact with employers every day, and they understand the needs of the students from a career perspective as well as the needs of the employers about what they need from today's students to ensure that they have the workforce of tomorrow.

(09:25):Faculty can invite in industry experts right into the classroom, practitioners that are doing the work, inviting graduates, alumni from the programs, from their courses. Students love to hear from professionals in the field. They can also read about the labor market and labor market trends that is so important. And they can get those trends right from their career center professionals on campuses. But they can also do that on their own to understand is the labor market strong? Is it weak? How are various industries doing? They can also get intimately involved in understanding the importance of experiential education and internships, particularly in their fields of study. And they can do that in a real hands-on way. We found in our study that there is a disconnect between faculty and what's happening with experiential education, and this is really important. And the reason that it's so important is that we know that students who have experiential education and more specifically paid internships upon graduation, will receive way more job offers than students who had no internship or even just had unpaid internships. And so we've got to bridge faculty's understanding around experiential education and internships just as much as we need to around the general labor market.

Shauna Cox (10:58):And I think in that or maybe a strategy around that is really based in the culture of it. So what are some strategies to effectively foster a culture of readiness across faculty members and the various departments?

Shawn VanDerziel (11:16):Yeah, I think an easy one would be to build in learning communities and communities of practice for faculty, particularly related to careers, the labor market and student career outcomes. Let's talk to the faculty. Let's put that into the ethos of the campus community about where are our students going, what are they actually doing? What are we missing? Where are fields that we need to strengthen and strengthen the outcomes for particular students or particular student groups? If we take a look at particular demographics and potentially students who maybe are not succeeding as well as other students, and that's going to vary from campus to campus, bring the faculty in on that and don't make it just an administrative thing or an administrative units thing. It's got to be the entire campus from the top. We need to build in a culture for integrating career competencies into the curriculum of every single classroom so that students understand the practical application of their learnings and the mastery of skills and competencies.

(12:26):We need to invite career center professionals in internship and experiential education offices into the classroom to do presentations. These don't have to be long presentations. They don't have to take the whole classroom time. They can be tidbits at a time, but where those offices can actually collaborate with the faculty, collaborate on projects, introduce faculty to practitioners that are in the field that could maybe come into the classroom, talk to those employers that are hiring the students and connect that to the faculty maybe to do projects. I could go on and on this particular topic, but bottom line, we need to incentivize faculty to do all of these things and more. We need to give them the time. We need to give them the resources and potentially reward them for doing this work. They have an expertise likely and something really important, and that's what they've known and that's what they do to impart that knowledge. And now we need to be infusing that with a bunch of other things to ensure that the students are getting the outcomes that they need.

Shauna Cox (13:49):Absolutely. And of course, everything that you mentioned there would certainly have a ripple effect, and I want to highlight what that ripple effect may look like. So what impact does this focus on specifically that college to career pathway have, not only on the institution, but also its learners?

Shawn VanDerziel (14:08):Yeah, well simply state it. It'll strengthen student outcomes, period. And isn't that what we all want? Isn't that why we all do this? Let's get back to the basics. We've learned a lot about outcomes over the last five years, four or five years particularly. And that learning comes down to the fact that it's not just one department's job to help students get into their dream jobs or careers. It takes an entire campus community, every office, let's get everyone built into this. So I don't want to make this even just about faculty. It takes every office on a campus, every department to be thinking about why is that student there and how can I make an impact in that student's life to help them to achieve their dream? They're spending a lot of money with us, they're investing a lot of time with us, and how can we all help them to achieve their desired results? And that focus has to be on career outcomes for most of them. Sure, it may be continuing education once they leave, let's say from a bachelor's degree to go on a master's degree. But really what is that student trying to achieve the career in the end? And so let's keep focused there and take a vested interest from day one and to ensure that there's an emphasis on it throughout that student's career.

Shauna Cox (15:50):Amazing. I love it. I mean, at the end of the day, that's why we get up in the morning, right? Make sure these students have fulfilling careers and lives and Amazing. Love it. So before I let you go, Sean, I do need to get a restaurant recommendation from you. Now you are based in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Where do people need to go?

Shawn VanDerziel (16:13):Oh goodness. Okay. So of course Bethlehem, Pennsylvania is the mecca of food. There are many places we like to go. That was a joke. Of course.

Yeah, if you didn't know, you have to come. We have a great ramen place that we love here in town, and it's called Mr. Lee's noodles, and they have the spiciest dishes, so you have to like spicy. But not only do they have great spicy dishes and wonderful ramen, but they also have really inventive drinks. So you have to not just go over the food, but you have to go for the drinks too.

Shauna Cox (16:54):Amazing. Love it. Thank you so much, Sean. It was great chatting with you.

Shawn VanDerziel (16:57):Awesome. It was great to be here.