Carolyn MacLaren (University of Fraser Valley) on Boosting Institutional and Learner Success Through Collaboration

On today’s episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Carolyn MacLaren to discuss the importance of partnerships to help students develop job-ready skills.  

Transcript

Voiceover: Welcome to Illumination by Modern Campus, the leading podcast focused on transformation and change in the higher education space. On today’s episode, we speak with Carolyn MacLaren, who is Director of Continuing Education at the University of the Fraser Valley. Carolyn and podcast host  Shauna Cox discuss the importance of partnerships to help students develop job-ready skills. 

Shauna Cox(00:02):Carolyn, thank you so much for joining me on the Illumination Podcast. It's great to be chatting with you.

Carolyn MacLaren (00:07):Well, thanks for the opportunity, Shauna. It's really great with chatting with you as well. Looking forward to this.

Shauna Cox(00:12):Yeah, absolutely. So we're here to talk about the importance of partnerships, especially in today's world when it comes to helping students develop job ready skills. And I want to kick off our conversation with why exactly is it important for higher ed leaders to focus on partnerships to deliver those job ready skills for learners?

Carolyn MacLaren (00:34):Yeah, I mean, I think partnerships are really important tool that we have in our quiver, if you will, as continuing ed practitioners because we can't do everything. And so when I think of partnerships, we can bring a component of a really good partnership to the table, but we can't bring it all to the table. And in particular, I'm thinking about subject matter expertise and content. So things that my area can do really well is sort those administrative supports around programs, but we don't have the capacity or the ongoing capacity for program development and it's partnerships that allow us then to bring that piece to the table often in ways that are much faster than we could do it internally here at the university. And in a way that sometimes the partner will bring subject matter expertise to the table that is far more current and is more agile and is focused more on directly transferable skills as opposed to sort of the theoretical models or conceptual models around whatever the subject is.

Shauna Cox(01:41):Absolutely. And now when it comes to the term partnerships, this can be internal partnerships, oftentimes it does lead to external partnerships either way though it's never always a smooth road, people have different goals and things like that. So what are some of the common challenges to partnerships that you have seen?

Carolyn MacLaren (01:59):Sure, great question. I think some of the challenges that one needs to proactively either manage, mitigate, or avoid are things around philosophical alignment. So does the partner, are they philosophically aligned with where you are as a business unit or as an institution? So is there confluence or is there a support there financially? So continuing education is an exciting space to be in. There's lots of opportunities there. But with that, sometimes there are partners who may have a great concept, a great idea, a great program, but they are just not financially viable or sustainable. And so that's another big one I would say you certainly want good alignment with the brand is does the partner, will the partner enhance your brand? Will it make you guys stronger or better? Do they actually have good deep experience in not just their subject area, but in pedagogy and andragogy?

(03:08):So do they know the adult education space? Do they speak your language? Do they know assessment? And lots of things around the quality assurance. Do you have the same quality assurance standards or can they meet your quality assurance standards in continuing education? Certainly if we look at things from a regional perspective, I always like to have a conversation around exclusivity. There needs to be a business case for my unit to partner with a service provider. And if that service provider is partnering with me and everybody else in my area, then it doesn't make my brand stronger or lettuce stand out. So I think those are sort of key things that I would look at. The other one that we, I know at the university here we think of a lot, but I don't know if it comes up a lot in conversations is what's that partner's commitment to EDI? So equity, diversity and inclusion also, what's that partner's commitment to the United Nations declaration on the rights of indigenous people. And I've had partners who just stop cold when I ask that question. But for us as an institution, EDI and undrip are very, very important to our operating principles. And any partner that we partner with also needs to walk that journey with us. And so yeah, I'd say those are kind of, I mean I've got more, but those are sort of key things that I would look at. Certainly alignment's the biggest one.

Shauna Cox(04:43):Absolutely. And I kind of want to deep dive that, deep dive into that a little bit more when it comes to the best practices. So what is some advice or best practices to overcome some of the challenges or at least that higher ed leaders need to be conscious of when looking at partnerships?

Carolyn MacLaren (05:03):Yeah, I mean there's lots of best practices. For me, I guess it all really starts with any relationship, right? Communication is key. It's absolutely key. And so you need to be able to have good open communications with that partner while you're even contemplating the partnership. So the business climate is easy. Figure out the dollars, you can figure out how this is going to work, that sort of thing. But you need to have that good, open, honest communication and really be able to speak to what matters to your institution and what those expectations are. And then where communication becomes even more important is if you are facing some sort of risk, if something comes up, you need to have a really good communication strategy in place. You can't be trying to create one while you're in crisis. You need to be able to. So I'd say that, and just transparency is huge.

(05:56):I mean, I will say every day I'm approached by prospective partners, some who've maybe done a bit of homework and others who are just emailing everybody who's a director or dean of continuing education, seeing if something will catch. And so the partnership has to make business sense, and I will have those conversations and tell them what we need, not just financially, but what we need from a perspective partner. And then it also makes it easier to say no to a partnership when you've been upfront, you've been very transparent. Somebody may have the greatest program. It may financially look like it could be really good for you, but if it's not in alignment with your overall strategic direction of your business unit, you simply can't bring that partner on. And so again, when you've got good communication, no one's offended when you say no, particularly in how you say no.

(06:51):So I say no and tell them, here's why, love your product, but here's why it just doesn't make sense for us. So I'd say best practices and have a bit of a checklist, if you will, for your institution that will help you determine a go no go with this partner. And so if there are 15 things that are very, very important to you, your institution and your legal department, you want to make sure that you know how many of this 15 you need to check and what the most important ones are. And so have some rigor around your partnership contemplation model, if you will.

Shauna Cox(07:35):And I want to dive into the partnership itself a little bit more. So say someone has had their checklist, everything matches, they got their alignment, all those things. Oftentimes a partnership shouldn't just be a one transaction and then you're done and you both hit the road. So what's required from both an institutional standpoint and an industry standpoint to maintain a strong partnership that's going to last for years?

Carolyn MacLaren (08:08):Yeah, I mean, again, it comes down I think to the basis of that partnership. So really good communication and an appetite and an interest to work together and to elevate each other's portfolios, if you will. So you may start with delivering a course on a certain subject area, but then as your relationship grows, you realize, oh, they actually could have capacity to help us develop another program or another course. And so just that shared load, if you will, the complimentary pieces that both of the partners bring together. And then a willingness to walk that journey together and to take those challenges together where both partners have some skin in the game. And it's not just transactional. We've had some great partnerships where organizations have come to us with what looks like from a subject matter area, it looks like a really good partnership. It looks like they've really got something we're interested in.

(09:11):And we look at their program, we're like, Hey, there's no assessment in here. You have no assessment. And so we have a conversation about, okay, we need you to build in some assessment in order for us to even contemplate this, and we're going to help you build that assessment, our expertise. We have resources at the university that we can teach you about assessment. We can help you understand assessment, and we can even help you build assessment that you will then add to the program that you'll deliver for us. So we've never had a partner walk away and say, no, we're not actually interested in adding those components to our program. The conversations have always been, that's so cool. Teach us how to do that and it's going to make our program better. And then that's a partner that you're inclined to work with. Again, when something else comes up, you'd be like, maybe I should just tap them on the shoulder and see if that's something that would be of interest to them.

Shauna Cox(10:05):Absolutely. You're leveraging each other's expertise and skills and still having a win-win in the end. Which kind of dovetails into the last question that I have for you in terms of the impact. So what kind of impact does a strong partnership have, not only on the institution, but also what's learners?

Carolyn MacLaren (10:25):Sure. I mean, on the institution, obviously it allows us to broaden our portfolio of offerings. So it gives us a more robust business unit, if you will. But for learners, it gives them access to much more training programs, skill learning opportunities. And in this instance, the University of the Fraser Valley is a trusted brand. So we've already got a relationship with that student. So now this is just an add-on another piece that they're able to come to us for. So we become sort of their trusted educational provider, if you will, because we've got that relationship. And then there is a relationship that kind of evolves with that student. So when they need training, the first place they're going to look is back to the University of the Fraser Valley because they have that connection, and that's where you want to be. You want those students to always come back to you.

(11:21):You also want them to have some trust in that the programming that you're bringing to them has gone through some sort of vetting process. Because we can all sign partnerships. I could sign probably five partnerships today before the end of the day if I wanted to. Probably not in my best interest or in our students' interest. But when you have that relationship and you've established that, sorry, you're going to have to rerecord this piece, the struggling for my word, the reputation. When you have that reputation, the student has certain expectations, the learner of what you've done to bring this partner to the table. So you're just expanding that reach that you have, and you're allowing students to get those skills in a short duration, familiar situation or scenario that they already know and that they trust. So I think that's a huge piece for the partnership.

(12:22):The benefits for the learner benefits, again, for the institution is just being able to augment what we already do and what we already do really well in I'd say a cost effective and sustainable manner that when I think of the process that we normally go through to bring a new program or even a new course on stream, those can be pretty protracted timelines. And by the time I get my course on stream, subject matter has changed already significantly. So that's where working with partners just allows us to do more than we could if we were just trying to do it internally.

Shauna Cox(13:01):Absolutely. Well, Carolyn, that's everything that we have for you. But before I let you go, we're going to need a restaurant recommendation. So you are based in Abbots, British Columbia. If anyone's in town, where do they need to go?

Carolyn MacLaren (13:16):Wow, there are a number of great places. There's two that come to mind that I would really like people to know about. One is called the Little Sprout Cafe, which is a local, very healthy forward, not a vegetarian vegan restaurant, but it's focused on definitely plant-based. And it's run by a local community organization that works with their clients to have a restaurant and to create really, really good food while people are getting job skills that they can take then and go work somewhere else. So that's the Little Sprout Cafe and fine dining in Abbotsford. One of our favorites is Restaurant 62, and that's again, very focused on products from the Fraser Valley, from the local area. Excellent food, higher end, but it's fantastic. So those are both worth the visit when you're out here.

Shauna Cox(14:06):Amazing. I love the community focus there on both of those recommendations. It's so great. Carolyn, thank you so much for joining me today.

Carolyn MacLaren (14:14):Thank you, Shauna. Thanks so much. It's been a great opportunity. I.